Amelia: Hello everyone and welcome to our nutrition podcast. We are joined once again by Stacy Roberts-Davis who was with us for our live event and talked about the importance of good nutrition especially as you go in for treatment. The topic was so well received and is such an important piece of the journey that we are dedicating a separate podcast segment to just go a little bit deeper into the topic and hear more from Stacy about all the wonderful tools that she shares.

So Stacy is the president of Flavorful Nutrition. Her company's website is called flavorfullifestyle.com. She is a registered dietitian who has been practicing for over 10 years, and she also works directly with cancer patients that are going through this process and really helping them make the best choices for their diet and the journey. I encourage you guys to go out to Stacy’s website and get to know her a little bit more. Stacy, welcome to the podcast.

Stacy: Thank you so much for having me again.

Amelia: You are so welcome. It's our pleasure. You know, I enjoy going out to your website for all the wonderful tools, but also the way that you've done your bio really says a lot about you from the very beginning. It's very personal and very relatable. And I love that about you.

I have to say that there were a couple of things in the top ten that you list that I have my favorites. One was that you once won a VCR and you ask people if they know what that is. I am ashamed to admit that I know what a VCR is and I had a VCR. Like…that's a problem. And then your whitewater rafting story, where you were helping get your raft unstuck and then you got stuck again in someone else had to come and rescue you.

Stacy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just remember standing on the rock all by myself being like, “Oh my God, what am I going to do now?” And I had to have been like, 10 or 11 years old. So it's a crazy story.

Amelia: That is a crazy story. And it was a pretty story, and my absolute favorite was that when you were five, you won an award for eating six pizzas. For lunch at day camp, so that must have been before your nutrition days. Full circle moment.

Stacy: Definitely. Yeah. Exactly.

Amelia: So, welcome. As I said, you know, we wanted to kind of expand further on the topics that we shared during the live event. Nutrition is one of those things that early on in the journey is a key element to have right.

And I know from my own experience as well as what I hear from other patients is that it can often be a hurdle because you're usually told all the things to avoid and it can be really overwhelming. Don’t eat this, don't eat that and I fully respect some of that guidance. But what I really love about how you tackle it is you actually help people understand how to eat, you know, real food and how to make those choices.

And so I'd love for you to kind of walk us through that today. I'd like to start first with the basics. So let's start with the basics of how do people really understand how to even start to plan their diet…what a balanced diet looks like with treatment. So I'll turn it over to you on that end.

Stacy: Yeah. So all of us — cancer or no cancer — we want to eat all of the food groups. That's why some of these food diets out there drive me crazy because they're cutting out food groups.

We need fat. We need protein. We need carbs. We need them to function. Especially with cancer treatment.

We need these foods to help build our body so we're able to handle treatment and survive it. So when we're cutting some of this stuff out — I mean, first of all, I hate cutting things out of our diet – but we need the nutrients that they provide.

So carbohydrates, that's the biggest one I hear. Yes, I agree…there are some carbs that are not good for us…you know, our process foods, our cookies, our cake, our candies, some of our cereals. Yeah, they're not good for us. They're full of sugar, full of simple carbohydrates. They breakdown to sugar and make our insulin go crazy — not a good thing.

However, having good carbs that are whole foods: our fruits, our whole grains, our beans…these foods are going to nourish our body especially during treatment.

Fat is another one…I know back in the 80s, fat was a huge no-no…“Avoid fats.” But there are good fats in our diet. We need them to absorb the vitamins. So we need monounsaturated fats and polyunsaturated fats, which are good fats found in avocados, nuts, avocado oils, extra virgin olive oil. Those are good fats for us.

You know, we want to avoid saturated fats. Yes, we do need a little bit of saturated fats, but we don't need a ton of them.

And our trans fats. So those are the ones we want to try to cut back on.

But we need all these foods to nourish our body and especially protein during treatment. I do promote following plant based diet but I’m not saying that you have to become a vegan or vegetarian. That's not what I'm saying.

But we need protein in our diet and focusing more on our whole foods. So you could get protein from nuts, seeds, beans. And I'm going to say the “S” word, which I know is going to blow everyone's mind but: soy.

These are sources of protein that we do need so following a diet that has all of those components in it, is a balanced diet.

But when you're going through treatment, sometimes you are having side effects and it's harder to get those foods in. But we still want to have it in our head, that we need to eat protein, fats and carbs.

Amelia: So when we look at making those (and I want to come back to soy in a second), soy has become like this, you know — like something's happened to soy. So when I come back to something you said which is just so important around looking at the good foods to keep and then the things to stay away from. 

A lot of that also boils down to knowing what's inside whatever we're eating. So being diligent about labels. Labels can be really overwhelming, especially when you're trying to understand it for the first time. Are there basic staples of things that we should look at on a label and be mindful of? A quantity, you know, less than X is a good range? Give us your quick tips on labels as a guide.

Stacy: Yeah. So here's a label that I have here just so I have it in front of me and this is for a granola.

Amelia: Excellent choice because it's a quick go-to healthy snack.

Stacy: Yes, it could be, but it could also not be. But this one is a good one. Not going to mention names. But the first thing we really want to look at when we look at the label is what the serving size is. What are we talking about? Because you could look at a label, I know I had a nurse come to me and she brought me a thing of juice. And she looks at it…”Isn't this good for me? It only has 50 calories?”

So I look at it and I hand it right back to her and I said how many calories does it have? She goes: “50”.

Right, it says 50 right there. And I said look at it again.

And it was THREE servings per container, so her 50 calorie drink, was really 150 calories and she was drinking two of them a day! So it was 300 calories that she's drinking versus 100 calories. 

So I think looking at the label and knowing what we're talking about, what the serving size is and how many servings per container.

Now, some of the labels have two bars on it. So it's two different labels in one, and it means that it's showing you that if you decide to eat the whole bag, how many calories are you going to get? So that's important to look at.

#2 I think to look at is the percents. The percents are a guide honestly, because these food labels — the percent is based on if you're eating 2,000 calories a day. For some people that's fine. For someone like me, it is not OK because I will gain a lot of weight by eating 2000 calories. But it is a great guide to look at. So the percent, if it’s 5% or lower in that nutrient, it means it's low. If it's 20% or higher, it means it's high in that nutrient.

So, salt is a big one…if it's high in salt. If it's 26% salt, I would probably run and not pick it up, but if it's like 3-5%, it means it's lower in that ingredient.

So looking at using the percent as a guide definitely helps. So like I said: 5% or lower, it's low in that nutrient. 20% or higher it's high in that nutrient.

So it all depends on you too, of what your nutrient needs are.

So your sodium, your carbohydrates, the fiber, that's something else I think it's so important for everyone to know. Yes, once again, it depends on your treatment and your side effects. But fiber is very important to have. We want at least 25 to 35 grams of fiber a day.

Fiber is found in your whole grains, your fruits, your vegetables. But we want to fill up on fiber because that helps get rid of the toxins from our body. It helps us feel full so people who are going through or are finished with treatment, especially my breast cancer women tend to, unfortunately, gain weight sometimes during treatment. And they want to go back to what they were or want to lose weight. I mean we're women — we all want to lose weight, but fiber helps with that. It helps us feel full. So looking at how many grams of fiber is in that food.

So if we're going to eat bread, I know I said the “B” word, which everyone wants to avoid. We have lots of words that people want to avoid. With bread, you want at least three servings of fiber per serving. So if you decide to have bread, you know, look for that. You want something high in fiber to help you feel full.

Also, they added, which I think has been very helpful, if it has added sugar because sometimes you could read a label and it says 15 grams of sugar. And it's first, let's just say dried apples, right? But when you read the label, there's no sugar. It's just apples. But it's the sugar from the apple — it's a natural sugar.

Now they're adding the line where it includes added sugar, so you'll be able to know how much added sugar is added to this item. Which I think is very helpful because some people look at it, and they're like, “Oh my God, there's so much sugar in it”. But it's just fruit and fruit…yes, it does have sugar, but there's no added sugar to it. I find that very helpful.

Amelia: It's the good kind of sugar that already comes with the food, as opposed to the artificial on top of.

Stacy: Yeah. And like that type of stuff — it's high in sugar, your natural sugar — you could always add it with protein and fat, so it won't raise your insulin as high — so your sugar is high.

I'm on this dried apple kick. If we use the dried apple, maybe mixing it with some peanut butter or almond butter, because that'll have the fat and the protein, so your sugar level won't go as high. So, you want to pair it with fat and protein, or if you wanted to add yogurt to it — crunch it up and now you have a crunchy texture to your yogurt. That's something you could do.

And looking at the protein is important. We want to see how much protein is in it.

But also, they added more vitamins to it, and now they're telling you how many grams or mcgs. which are so helpful because before it used to be a percent and I'm like, well, what does that mean?

Now it has vitamin D, calcium, iron and potassium. It's telling you how much...this granola has one gram, 1 milligram of iron in it. And it has 212 milligrams of potassium in it, so you're actually getting a number.

If you have to follow a low potassium diet or you need more iron in your diet because you're anemic, it really helps to guide you.

Amelia: And those are great elements because those are a lot of things that are tracked when people go for their treatment. I have a vitamin D deficiency and so that's always something that I take a supplement for that. And so, we're watching it all the time. But it's super helpful to also know how to read a label in a way that guides that discussion. And I want to come back to something you said about fiber. Fiber is such an important element. And sometimes people will stay away from it because of the side effects…so it's the compounding side effects.

Something that you said is something that I have found helpful, which is the week of treatment, even though the side effects are going to cause you to be in the bathroom more and to have issues with digestion — I tend to actually do more fiber to help my body rid, as quickly as possible, and kind of, you know, work through the medication faster as opposed to having it be less. But then get nauseous later. And so…tips on fiber. I'm glad that you mentioned it. You know, you can use fiber to your advantage as opposed to seeing it as something that is causing you more harm.

Stacy: Yeah. And especially when you are going through treatment with the diarrhea — it's awful. And I feel like you want to do anything in your power to stop. And fortunately, or unfortunately, whatever it is, some of the foods that help bind you up aren't nutrient dense.

So people are like, well, what do you mean I should eat white bread. Well, just for this moment – you know, with the fiber. So yeah, having the low fiber diet, if you're having diarrhea could help. So eating the white bread, eating the white rice, you know, having no skins on your fruits and vegetables. Like for some people that's their normal diet and that's what they eat anyway. For someone who's trying to eat healthy and then being told that — they're like taken aback by it.

Amelia: And it's really demystifying what should be part of it and what shouldn't. And I think people make assumptions and/or the mainstream talks about the fact that, oh, it's all bad — and it isn't. There are many factors that actually help you bounce back, especially the week of treatment.

Stacy: Yeah, it definitely depends on the situation. Am I standing here promoting everyone should eat white bread? No. But you know, if white bread or Ritz crackers are going to help someone with the diarrhea so they're not spending all day on the toilet. Yeah, you know.

Or even eating the bananas — having the unripe bananas. Because if it's unripe, the more yellow or green it is…and I know everyone has their way they like bananas.

Amelia: Bananas are very personal.

Stacy: Yes, they are.

Amelia: Some people like their bananas almost to the point where they’re a plantain. And other people like their banana, where it's still like you almost have to slice it to eat it, right?

Stacy: Yes. And at that point, those are better for diarrhea. So, the greener they are or the yellower they are — those could help you. But the more brown they are — it just means there is more sugar in it and more sweet in it. So, you know at that point it's broken down.

Amelia: So, you're not getting as much from it even if you try. You talk a lot about, (and I always kind of break it into for those that are on like myself metastatic treatment) where you're on treatment for the rest of your life, and it's usually every three weeks. So, you have to gear up every single time to face what is usually anywhere from three to five days, sometimes seven days to bounce back.

I have found that gentler foods, especially that week, may not be things that I eat all the time. But for that week, they are gentle enough and help my body process the medications.

Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on gentler foods and how to assess that?

Stacy: Yeah, it depends on how you feel, too. Like, if you're having the diarrhea or nauseousness and just not feeling right. I mean, eating a heavy steak and potatoes probably isn't going to help. But just sticking with foods that are easier to digest and not as flavor…it doesn't have to be, I guess not as flavorful, but not as spicy. And textures that might just turn you off, too.

But sticking with foods that are blander, like your chicken, your fish — even your pastas, your squashes are easier to breakdown. Even your cooked vegetables are easier to breakdown, but you have to see how you're feeling, too, and what you're in the mood for. And I know that changes, too. Because I have clients who tell me I told my family that I wanted this type of soup. They made it for me and once they put it in front of me, I didn't want it anymore.

Amelia: That's a great point. Smells are such an enormous factor, more so than I think ever before in my life. A scent of something can completely alter whether I'm able to eat it or not. And so many times I stay with things… that also taste…so for when I first, you know, I've had now many, many different treatments.

My first treatment was the super aggressive chemo and part of it changed my taste to where things tasted metallic. Or I couldn't taste it at all. It almost felt like my tongue was burnt. Like when you burn your tongue and you lose that ability to taste for a little bit. But it was like that for like six months.

And so I just forced myself to eat anyway because I knew I had to get through it. But I hear from other folks that sometimes it can be too much and so they choose not to eat, which is super dangerous because that then compound more effects.

Stacy: Yeah. And I think it's our mindset too. If you tell yourself you can't eat, you're not going to be able to eat. And my other thing is portion size. 

Like you said, the smell of food turns you off. Well, the look of food and the portion size of food could turn you off, too. I always tell family…I like to work with the caregivers too and the family because they're important and I know they care and they want their family to eat. And the client wants to eat — they know you need to eat.

Amelia: That's it. That's a big point, 'cause I see that all the time about people saying, she doesn't want to eat, or he doesn't want to eat. And the caregivers like “You got to eat!” So they're worried about no food, right? And so, they still think that the person should eat a normal plate and in reality, that's really hard to do. Sometimes it's a couple of crackers and you're good for a couple of hours.

Stacy: Yeah. And it's the fighting. Like, I see the fighting and I hear about it. I'm like, “OK, let's please stop”. I don't want fighting.

OK, these are the rules now: The patient, the client will eat as much as they can, but you need to give them a little at a time. Just a little, even if it's a spoonful. I don't care. It's better than nothing. Even taking a sandwich — let's just take your wonder bread, white bread sandwich, and you cut it into four pieces. Even if you want to cut it into six pieces, whatever it is, into small little pieces. You give them that one little piece, and if they finish it, what an accomplishment!

Versus: putting a whole sandwich in front of someone saying “eat it”. They only take a bite of it and then the caregivers is upset they didn't eat anything. The client is upset because they knew they needed to eat more, but if you only gave them that amount and they finished it, it's a mind game. Everyone is happy! And even if you could eat the quarter of that sandwich, so four pieces and you eat it every hour. Fine. It took you four hours to eat a sandwich. But you ate all of it.

Amelia: I had to do that. Yeah. I mean, I remember one time distinctly. It took me 30 minutes to eat a banana. I never before had experienced anything like that. But I knew, right. And I did what you're describing…I actually cut it. And I thought…alright…I'm going to have just this much right now. Because that's all I can bear. But I also knew that if I did not eat, which is what my body was telling me to do. But I knew that it was going to make my stomach worse, because then you have acid and all the things that come with that.

So, I love how you say, “look: slice it into something that is manageable and that's it”. That's OK, because it's almost feels it's not intuitive to think of it from that perspective. But that's what helped me. Otherwise, I know if you gave me the entire banana, I would not have been able to eat even a third of it. And then it would have been like, well, what about the rest?

As opposed to, “OK, I'm going to take the next hour and I'm going to eat a little bit at a time and take a break”. And the same is true with liquids. So hydration…tell us a little bit about that. You know for me, I've always been a big water drinker. But at first it tasted metallic so that was a challenge.

And then the other thing is…the nausea (everyone is just a little bit different but for me it would actually start at the back of my throat). So, it felt almost like when you're going to gag and then it would end up in my stomach. I was having a tough time with all that…I found a lot of help in Pedialyte. I would freeze the little packets and then I would have that almost like in a popsicle type of thing, because I felt like I was tricking my body into still drinking the full glass.

Stacy: And you said the full glass. My tip and trick is shot glasses.

Amelia: There you go. I love it. I love it!

Stacy: It's easier. You're only drinking 1 1/2 ounces. And if you could do a shot versus putting a big mug in front of someone saying you need to drink all of it at once…again, it's overwhelming. And if you just use a little shot glass…

Amelia: Or those little cups, they have at a dentist office when they're, like, rinse with this.

Stacy: Exactly. The ones you use when you brush your teeth, yes, those little things.

Amelia: Yeah. I love that.

Stacy: If you're not eating…so if you're making smoothies and you're buying shakes or making shakes at home, once again, use the shot glasses…a little at a time… versus the big thing 'cause just the looks could turn someone off.

Amelia: Exactly. Yeah, that for me was the key. And again, as I said, I took a lot of comfort in Pedialyte because Pedialyte also helped with my stomach issues. There was just something about it that also prevented that gagging sensation in the back of my throat all the time. I knew that it was an accelerant for hydration. I knew that obviously there's sugar in there because I knew that going in, right? But I had to do something to hydrate because it was a problem.

Stacy: Yeah, and hydration is important. So like you're saying, it doesn't have to just be plain old water. Pedialyte, is great if you want. Coconut water is great. If you like to flavor up your water, add pieces of fruit to it. If things taste bitter, you could add sweetness to it…add a piece of mango, add a piece of watermelon to it and it'll flavor it up a little bit more.

Also, when we talk about hydration, it doesn't just have to be water. I mean your fluids, your soups count as fluid, too. If you are not eating well and you like chicken noodle soup…the soup, counts as fluid, also.

Amelia: That broth…people don't think about that. You're exactly right. People don't naturally think about that because they always think I got a layer on top of that my 64 ounces of water. Which is how we're wired to think about what we choose. Speaking of choices, tell us a little bit about healthy choices…not everyone can cook…or the fatigue is sometimes really hard, so you prefer to either buy things that are pre-made or to go to a restaurant and get something there. Tell us about just healthy choices in general, especially when dining out. Or when picking up.

Stacy: Yeah. So going out to eat doesn't have to be the worst thing in the world. You know, we could make healthy choices. And especially nowadays, there's so many meal delivery companies that sell healthy meals, where they sell the meals or they sell the kits where you're actually learning how to cook and you're getting all the ingredients, which is very helpful because you're learning how to cook, and you could take what recipes you like and don't like.

But when you're going out to eat, you really want to look for things that have lots of sauces in it or cream sauces 'cause then you know it's going to be a lot of fat and butter and cream. Even looking out for keywords like crunchy, fried crispy. Then you know it's going to be…well, we want to stick with baked stuff. So if it's baked chicken, baked fish…I'm just trying to keep it simple.

It's the sauces that really kill us because we have no control. We're letting a restaurant decide and they're adding a lot of salt and butter.

Amelia: And I always like to get my sauce on the side of whatever I get because then I can control. And they usually give you so much. “My goodness, this is what was going to go over this thing!” And maybe I just take a little bit of it and dab it. As opposed to the…back to your shot glasses…the bad shot glass. The one that has the whole dressing for an entire family salad, that's really a single portion.

Stacy: And those salads, I mean, if you ever buy a salad and you get those packets of dressing and you read the label of it, some of them are mind blowing. You read the label, and just for the salad dressing is like 400 or 500 calories. And now you're going to put it on a healthy salad that basically, has no calories. I mean to be honest…I'd rather eat French fries.

Amelia: And that's the thing. You're so right, and that's why for me, I always say you don't need the whole pack. I mean, it's almost like sometimes the packet of it is larger than what the lettuce can handle. It's like the lettuce is now soup because it's so much, right. And it's better to say, OK, I'm going to take a little bit and taste it and see how I like it. I like to also just sprinkle a little bit of the dressing and then shake the packet so the salad gets coated and you actually get just as much flavor, without having to use the whole thing.

Stacy: Like, I ask people…is it salad with dressing or dressing with salad?

Amelia: With like three pieces of lettuce.

Stacy: Yeah, exactly. We should be eating the salad and getting all the nutrients from it. Even if you are at home. I know we're talking going out to eat, but you could be making your own dressing at home. At least you're in more control of what's in your food.

I mean, I'm not a fan of the fat free dressings. I'd rather someone eat the real deal dressing, just because you're going to get more flavor from it. You could do the low fat. It's the no fat stuff because it has no fat… like it's just blah.

Amelia: Right, exactly. It's not going to benefit you. And your point is then you can choose the oils that are going to be helpful for you, like you were talking about the avocado based oils or coconut or olive oil. Then you can just then start from a good baseline.

Stacy: Yeah. And even if you like the creamy dressings instead of using the mayonnaise that they use or whatever they're using, you could use yogurt for your base of your creamy dressing, so you're getting a health benefit. You're getting protein, you're getting the tartness, and now you can add seasoning to it. So if you like a Caesar dressing, you could always add if you wanted to do Parmesan cheese, you could do that. Or you could add your nutritional yeast to it so that'll give it a cheesy flavor. There are ways to make dressings that are healthier.

Amelia: Yogurt is a great utility player. I'm glad you mentioned yogurt. Because yogurt…I mean, again, I have found it extremely helpful on super nausea, intense days. I I feel. And sometimes all I can handle is a teaspoon of it. So I just take a little teaspoon and I take my time with it. But I do feel that when it lands in my stomach, it almost feels like there's a coating effect. I know obviously it's a good probiotic. It's my go to when I can't seem to get the nausea to just calm down and I know I need something in my gut.

Stacy: And yogurt too, now…they have so many great non-dairy yogurts for the people who don't want to do dairy. There are some that are…when you do compare some of the non-dairy yogurt don't have a lot of protein in it.

Just because the nondairy milks don't have a lot of protein in it. But they have come out with some really good higher protein yogurts. I like that one where they have a Greek yogurt, and it has 10 grams of protein per serving. Yes, it's not as much as the dairy Greek yogurt, but you're still getting some.

Amelia: But you're still getting some. And back to your label…it's important to read and know what to do…you know what to select from that. We have the ownership of knowing what the label can do for us. Suppose it's assuming or only reading the front of the package. There's a whole lot going on behind it.

I think one of the things that I always try to do (and I heard this early on) is whenever cravings hit, how do we splurge responsibly? Someone said, you know, what would a really healthy person or healthy eater…what would they choose?

And so sometimes I ask myself that and I'll say OK, I'm craving something. I want a snack. A really healthy eater would choose a handful of nuts and all that. So I'll eat that.

But there are other times when I really want those, you know, chips or I might want some sweet potato chips and all that. So it's the question of how do we splurge responsibly? You know, what's the guidepost?

Stacy: I mean, it depends on you, too. Because I don't want you to splurge on…let's just say you're craving potato chips because you said that, right? And you decide that you're going to have sweet potato baked chips.

Amelia: Those are my go to chips. I love those.

Stacy: And if you've noticed in the past, it doesn't satisfy you…it doesn't satisfy that chip that you want those crispy white chips…let's just go for the white chip. Just take a little bit of it, because then you're going to keep wanting those chips and then eventually, you're going to do it. So now your sweet potato chips: it didn't satisfy you, and now you're going to eat the regular chips.

Amelia: With more intensity. And now I got all the chips, right?

Stacy: So you might as well just go for the original to begin with, right?

But you really have to talk to yourself, because if those sweet potato chips do satisfy you, then go for it. Like it might be a great alternative.

But just sometimes you want that chocolate cake. You know, and if you're eating a piece of chocolate, it might not satisfy that. You want the cake. You want that texture. So now you just ate the chocolate plus now you're going to eat the cake. You might as well just have a little bit of that cake and satisfy yourself.

Amelia: And it's that moderation, right? So it's to say, I believe, like I eat a little bit of everything. There's some things like I don't…I'm not a big fried food person so that's never going to be a craving for me, but some of the things that you talk about like sweets and a little slice of cake or chocolate chip cookie or whatnot.

But the piece is then a trade off, right? So if you have one, you can't have 17 of them or you can't have it every single day, multiple times a day. So you have to trade off and say, I know that I can do that now and then that means that I scale back the next day, and it's those trade offs.

But knowing how to trade off kind of leads us to kind of our last segment is kind of keeping track of what you're doing. So I know you talk a lot about (and you did this at our live event as well) around tracking tools and really staying on top of it. This can sometimes be a game changer for people, but it's also one of those that, how do you start the habit?

Because some people either don't like to write things down or are bad at that. Give us some kind of beginners how to keep a good tracking practice.

Stacy: You know, I started tracking myself because I've wanted to know what I eat. You know, I tell clients to do it all the time, but I need to do it myself. I'm a big advocate for that. If I tell someone something is good — I've had it. I've tried it. I can't just push it, and especially tracking food. I think it could be very difficult. Even me as a professional — it's hard.

We don't know portion sizes… like you go out to eat and you're guesstimating the portion size and are you over guesstimating…under? But it's just still gives you a little…

Amelia: Especially when you go to restaurant because…you don't know what is happening? I know there are some apps now that have the restaurant menus and then I've heard about this so. You can just click, click, click. There you go.

Stacy: Yeah. Where did I have the other day? And I was like, “Oh my, they had it in the app!”. So I knew exactly. Oh, I went to Bolay. If anyone knows Bolay, they had it in the app. So I didn't really have to guesstimate. So it was just a good indicator. But using those apps…apps are good.

Lose it is one. My fitness pal (they have free versions of it so you don't have to pay for it).

I know when I work with clients I give them access to practice better where they put in what they're eating and I get to see it. And you know, just keep track of what they're doing and just to hold them more accountable. I ask questions of, “Oh well, you had a salad. Did you add dressing to it?” Just in case you forget to add things.

But yeah, keeping track…I don't want people to stress it and I don't want people to go crazy with it because it can be a little much. But if you start learning and measuring food and seeing …last night, I made a dish and I put in a half a cup of pasta and I measured it out…I wanted to see what really a half a cup of pasta looks like.

Amelia: And it’s really a lot, actually.

Stacy: Yeah, it was. I was like,

Amelia: Yeah, it's more than people think it is. And it's again a filling item. So when you eat it, it feels like, oh, OK, I I've had enough.

Stacy: You know it had some carbs which, you know, we need some carbs. And you start to learn what a half a cup looks like…what a cup of vegetables look like…what 4 ounces…and then eventually it becomes second nature to you where you learn portion sizes.

I think portion sizes are important, but also seeing with weight loss, we need to eat to lose weight. We need to eat calories and a lot of people cut back. They're not eating enough calories, and they're like, well, I don't know why I'm not losing weight.

Our bodies are smart. It's holding on to everything, and it's going to start breaking itself down to give us the energy we need. And it's not going to break down your fat. It breaks down your muscle. And we need our muscle. We need to get enough calories.

I did a tracking for myself and I was like, “Oh my God, I didn't really eat today”. And it just, like, opened my mind. Like, Oh my God!

Amelia: It's so important you said that because that's also especially important. I know folks, especially when they're going through treatment that say, I just wasn't hungry at all. I didn't even know if I ate yesterday. And I always think that's really dangerous, right?

But your point is, if you're now logging your activities, right, for lack of a better word, you're learning to also watch your habits of. Are there days when you eat more than others and what may be affecting that would allow you to kind of balance it out a little bit more.

I am not as diligent with my food tracking as I should be. I've got, I think, good habits of: I eat my breakfast every day like I can't function without breakfast. I have my lunch. I have my dinner. And then in between I have snacks. But I'm definitely going to try one of the apps that you mentioned because I've not ever tracked it on an app and it's going to be really interesting. I'll send an update. I'll make a blog about that.

Stacy: No, it's really interesting just to see and even, you know, if you're not hungry, you know, doing those shakes. I used to not be a pusher of those pre-made shakes, but some of them are great and especially in this situation, if you're not feeling well. You have no food…you have no meals cooked for you and all you want to do is pop open a shake and sip on it throughout the day. It's better than doing nothing at all. And there are good ones out there. Some better than others, just like anything.

But even if you wanted to make shakes at home…just something for you to sip on throughout the day it helps. Being nauseous is the worst thing in the world and it's hard to get rid of it.

So the best thing is trying to prevent it from happening.

And I'm not a pill pusher. I'd rather people not take medications, but sometimes it's necessary and I'm always a big advocate, take your anti-nausea medicines.

Amelia: I am too. I should get t-shirts made on that because it is. And what happens is nausea is tricky. It'll sneak up on you. So you think you're fine…you think you're fine. And then suddenly you're not. It hits hard and then then you're chasing it. One of the best pieces of advice I got early on about nausea control from one of the nurses was: “you do not want to be chasing nausea, you will lose every time”.

And so eating helps prevent that. And then also obviously we're, you know, where it's necessary, the anti-nausea meds are our best friend. You can't. You can't forget to take them, you know. If you don't, you're feeling good. And then suddenly nausea is just like: “hello!”.

Stacy: That's why your phone is your best friend. Because you could set timers to remind you to take your meds, to eat, to drink, and do different songs. I had one client who took a picture of me and she's put me (unfortunately) on her timers. So every time, every hour, my face would come up and would remind her to eat something. Alright. That works.

Amelia:  And that's a great way because it's good energy, right? You’re channeling the image of someone that you know is helping you to be your best and to feel good, especially when treatment can do so many hard things to you…to the body…to the mind and all that. It's amazing. It's amazing.

Stacy: Food should be fun. Like food…is comfort. We don’t want to go to food for comfort. But you know, it's the one thing that we have control over. You know, we have control over the medications and everything, but usually what the doctor tells us to do, we're going to do. The doctor tells us we're getting radiation. We're getting treatment. We're doing this. We're doing that, you know, usually we just say, OK, and we go with it and food is the one thing that we have complete control over what you put in your mouth and in your body.

Amelia: Absolutely. And it's choosing the best friends of the group that help us and not harm us. Thank you so much for this. This was excellent. I know we're going to have to do more of these because I know that this is a topic that is so evergreen. And I think it's also so essential and people don't always have the access to the right guidance and instead they're left feeling like they've got to take a lot away.

So that's why I so encourage people to visit your site, to work with you and to kind of get, you know, the guidance is going to help them, especially since you're working with people that are also dealing day-to-day with treatment. So thank you for joining us today.

Stacy's website is flavorfullifestyle.com, as always, Stacy, a pleasure. And thank you again for your time today.

Stacy: Thank you for having me.

Amelia: Be well. Bye, bye.

Stacy: You too.